The P&WV Hi-Line

PWVJer · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 946

PWVJer · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 946

The image date(s) of 1967 is not correct. P&WV archives indicate that
P&WV FM's began their march east to Lambert's Point Va. starting about April,
1965. New N&W timetables & train movements needed the higher horse power that ex-NKP and N&W units could provide.

Looking over many Train Dispatchers Sheets in our collection, by Feb. 1966
we no longer see any P&WV FM unit power recorded for any dates.

Some fans may have FM images photographed by The Gary's at Rook Yard. Most of these taken
in March/April of 1965 dates, very soon after, the FM's would be gone from Rook!

PWVJer · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 946

Looked thru some of the operations & maintenance records(P&WV Movements) during the early
1960's. A very common theme out of Rook Yard
were Extra movement(s) West.
Sample:
" 8:45 A.M. April 5, 1962. Extra 67 West. With Diesel Units
67-93-92-53 in multiple unit control.
Conductor H.E. Somplatsky, Engineer C.L. Glancy in charge."

Orders to work Mingo Jct.(set-off/pick-up cars). continue West to M.P. 99
(work Betsy Mine). Again, head West to (Hopedale NYC Transfer) Hopedale Siding M.P.109 pick-up loads, return East.
Again, stopping at Mingo Jct. siding to pick-up cars they set-off/gathered early.
Finally, at some point with new
orders as "Extra 53 East" (to Rook). Archives shows many of these train
consist had 60-70 cars, majority coal loads.

Rich_S · Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 253 Location: Baden, PA

Jer, Thanks for the links, always great to see the P&WV FM's on the high
iron. Would have been nice if they were in color, but a B&W photo is better
than no photo at all. Also thank you for the info on the FM march East to Roanoke and Lamberts Point coal yard. I've often wondered at what date they were all gone.
_________________
Regards,
Rich S.

Rich_S · Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 253 Location: Baden, PA

Was there a reason the P&WV always seemed to lead the H20-44's and
put the H16-44's within the consist? It just seemed the typical consists
was either a couple of H20-44's or a H20-44 + H16-44 + H20-44.
Just wondering why they never seemed to lead the H16-44's?
_________________
Regards,
Rich S.

PWVJer · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 946

Rich,
Think maybe, due to MU capabilities . Early on H-20-44's
(#50-58) 59? arrived New at Rook without nose-end MU connections.
Trains on the P&WV, for the most part (length/tonnage) did not require
more than 2-units at that time period. When the need did arise, they simply added
another unit or two, with second crew.

Starting about 1956?, looks like P&WV business began to pick-up,
longer trains/more tonnage/faster times etc.
New H-16-44's all arrived shortly (1957) all had factory installed,
MU @ both ends. These mated well in any combo with the better hard-pull 2000 HP. H-20's.
The early models (#50-59) delivered received complete MU
controls by about early 1960?

H-20-44 units 60-71 delivered from Beloit had full MU, and several other
newer up-dates ... traction motors, electric, brake-power controls etc.

Think? Unit 57 or 59? were the first to get the (MU-kit) installed by the Rook
shops, date? cost? as we understand it, as these older units came into the shop for regular
full maintain/inspection cycle-work etc. the nose MU would also be then added.

...and last, train crew-comfort??? most of the old-heads who ran daily
AJ's may have simply preferred and were comfortable with cab-end units?
..and easy for the train-master to assemble the needed power.

Archive's operation paper-work do show many movements,
with the H-16-44's on the head-end of multiple units. We just don't see a
lot of images(color or B/W) out there...
Again just my past thoughts/observation & conjecture while looking thru
some of the archive files and talking with some of the old heads,
JZ.

Rich_S · Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 253 Location: Baden, PA

Jer, Thank you for the reply. After reading your reply and then looking at
the photos, I'm a little red faced :) I never noticed the missing mu hoses on
the front of the H20-44's. That would be a good reason why they were
always on the ends.

I'll bet the pipe fitters and electricians had fun adding
all of the piping and MU cables to the front of those H20-44's. I've had to
change those Train Line MU plugs and they are a real pain, 27 pins that
don't like to cooperate. Also having to pull all of the wire and hooking them
to the various relays and terminals would not be a fun job.

Kind of reminds me of when we had to add ditch lights to the SD38's.
At first it sounds like a simple job, but that simple job turned into a week
long project of fishing wire, mounting control boxes, adding switches and
adding new wire to the head light controllers, etc.
_________________
Regards,
Rich S.

Hi-Line Fan · Joined: 08 May 2005 Posts: 19

This has been a really interesting conversation, thanks for sharing the info!

Just a quick question, and I apologize if it's already been discussed, but wasn't there something contractually with the trainmen's union regarding MU equipment? My grandfather's cousin was a conductor for P&WV (later NW), and when I talked with him one time he recalled something about pay rates based on powered axles? I can't remember the details, as that was about ten years ago. He seemed to recall that whatever the arrangement was, it worked out to the benefit of the crews, as he started in the steam era.

Also, were these operations reports a daily form that the railroad used to keep track of what was where? Sounds like they're an interesting read into the day-to-day life of the High and Dry.

Chris

PWVJer · Joined: 13 Dec 2005 Posts: 946

Chris,
Think, your Pap was referring to the issue of how/what a crew's
rate of pay would/should be when the new P&WV FM diesels began
to arrive in mass.
I guess, this started to become a major issue from the
Company's (P&WV) point of view about 1951-52. Unions wanted more $$$
to operate 2-units (one-MU-set) treated as two separate diesel units.
Before the Diesel era, one crew, one steam locomotive, one pay rate, based on tonnage, millage, engine type
etc. etc.
Management tried to get around this argument by placing temporary
number boards on engine cab sides, referring now... two(2) units
as one(1) numbered power set(s).

Think? by late 53' early 54' most operation (Co./Union) issues were resolved to
what we (some what ) have today.
Fans may want to look-close at some of our
early P&WV FM images dated about 1951-1954, you can see units
with small inter-changeable "number-board-frames" just below, the FM
cab-crew windows.
_____________________________________________________________

Chris,
Yes, Original "Dispatcher-Sheets" large-spread-sheet, hand written daily dispatcher accounts,
of all "road-operations" as they occurred for the specific date(s) (24hr. period). ... in very GREAT-detail !
Archive collection includes a good pile of these(P&WV) circa: 1959, 1965, 1966-67'.... and
few N&W's from 1970-71'.
Your Hi-Line web-master's also have access to several other private sheet collections. Some really neat Historical stuff!

Archive's in our care, have many:
Original Operations & Maintence
Company reports.
Telegraphic Reports of Incidents & Accidents reports
Casualty Reports
Wreck-Train-reports
AFE/AFR original reports Circa: 1919-1965.(large piles)
Company Diagrams/Maps/Drawings
..and huge amount of hand written/typed notes. letters, reports and forms
from both Management & Department hourly-workers.

____________________________________________________________
AGAIN !!!!! If it were not for GPS and Bill P.
NONE of this collection would be with us today!!!
The archives collections are "not owned " by the Hi-Line web-masters, we are simply
the current care-takers, with a mission to record/share as much P&WV Historic info
as our time & means permits, for all interested P&WV Alphabet Route Hi-Line fans to enjoy!
____________________________________________________________
JZ/JR.