The P&WV Hi-Line

[malley]

I'm still confused about Speers Viaduct.
On advice here, I got Shaeffer's really wonderful book, which has spectacular shots of the Viaduct. I realize that his photos date from the 80s and that things may have changed, and I did a search here, but I'm still conflicted on what's in and what's out.
Is there anything at all still in service on the lower deck of the bridge? Shaeffer indicates (on page 44) that the Monessen Southwestern is still active, but I can't judge from the photos and captions about what is still connected.

Also, on page 50 Schaeffer mentions the Vang and Graham tunnels on the Donora Branch. Neither is shown in the 2008 Trains article. Is that branch still in existence, out of service, torn out? What's become of the grade, and where, exactly, is it?
I'd like to get out there on the ground this summer.
Malley

[Longview Station]

The East End of the Lower Deck of Speers River Bridge is no longer connected to the former Monessen Southwestern Railway. The photo on page 45 of the new Connellsville District book shows the truss connecting. I think it was sometime after 1986 the deck truss was removed. I walked out onto the lower deck of the Speers River Bridge about that same time frame.

The Monessen Southwestern trackage is still active from the main track of the former P&WV down to the coke plant. The W&LE was using it daily to move coke, but that has since changed but they do deliver occasional loads to the bottom of the MSW bridge where MSW Gibson Yard was.

The Donora Branch was removed about 1986. It was even feautred on the Pittsburgh evening news when the bridge on page 51 was being dismantled. The contractor who was removing rail, ties and such from the branch attampted to pull down the section of bridge overtop the highway, but instead it fell straight down onto the road cutting wires in its path. A home video was made of the accident and was aired on t.v...

Graham and Vang tunnels were reported sealed, I have not been back there since. The roadbed is all grown in and I'd suggest waiting until winter to explore...A short section of the Donora Branch right of way exists at Sudan and now is a locals driveway. One bridge remains near Donora, the through truss over the NS. The balance of bridges and track were removed around 1986...

VW

[malley]

Thankee, Longview.
I have visited the Speers Bridge sometime in the last 10 years and probably have a picture, but I seemed to recall at least some of the looping track still being in place. So it is just the deck truss before joining the main span that is gone, as seen on p 45? Do the ties/rails remain on the rest of the lower deck? Can that still be accessed, and how grumpy is the W&LE about such things?

Did some further research on Vang and Graham. For some reason, I have them cited in my Gazeteer (Vang by name, but didn't know whose line they were), but they DON'T show up on Historical Maps (the line itself does). Some other online sources that I found since I asked the question show Vang just where I have it marked (under Rte 88 where it cuts the Donora oxbow). Graham is apparently further west. So why they aren't marked on a '30s vintage map I cannot imagine, and the alignment and terrain doesn't justify a tunnel. Very strange.
Thanks again for the comeback, and any other info is deeply appreciated.
Malley

[Longview Station]

I think the deck connecting truss was removed sometime early 1990's.
If memory is correct, Canestrale wanted it out so his cranes could
move through the area without striking it.
I can't say for sure about ties and rail out on the lower deck.
If you have a long ladder you could access the lower deck.
I don't think there is any other way to the lower deck without climbing.

Graham & Vang...of course the P&WV built it but the Donora Southern
operated it for years. Near Sudan, there were two highway crossings.
Narrow guage Road was the roads name. Narrow guage also passes under the east end of Sudan Bridge.
You can still see the rails in the lower crossing.
The concrete for the crossing flashers was still visible at the upper crossing last time I looked.
There were several additional bridges spanning the valley below the
tunnels. I had planned on walking the lower miles, but it was scrapped and the bridges removed before I had time to walk it.

[PWVJer]

Well, if all goes well, one of our Hi-Line fans may find a pick or two from the 40's or 50's,
he's doing some research at the Wash. Co. Road & Bridge archives sometime next week...we might just get lucky.

[malley]

Sorry to belabor the point, Longview, but what happens on the west end of the lower deck? Presume it had to make a connection over there as well.

BTW, Schaeffer also mentions Copeland and Wellsburg tunnels, one abandoned and the other daylighted. Presume they are on opposite sides of the Ohio River bridge. Do you know anything more about them? Locations? Date eliminated?

PWV'er, would be helpful if that research pays off. There is lots of info on Graham Tunnel....unhappily, the wrong Graham Tunnel...
Thanks, guys. I really am intersted in the P&WV...what's not to like? This site is helpful, and I appreciate the info.
Malley

[ple1556]

Malley, if I'm not mistaken, due to lack of funds, the lower part of the Speers viaduct was never finished. Nothing was ever laid other than the steel girders for the roadbed, which are still there today. If you drive I-70 & cross the bridge that parallels the span, you can clearly see the girders for the lower structure, and how they abruptly end on the west end.

The Grahm & Vang tunnels have been 'sealed', but holes, just big enough to fit an atv through, have been punched through both tunnels. Here is a link to a post complete with pictures of the tunnels posted by M. JCT:

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/BB/viewtopic.php?t=35&highlight=vang&sid=d858db4231a77e3db5be9e44acfc6ec2
_________________
High green!!

[malley]

So the eastern end was connected (to the Monessen Southwestern), but didn't cross the bridge? Was it used as a dumper for barge traffic? Quite a spectacular approach, trading distance for height.
Thanks,
Malley

ETA-Great link to Vang and Graham! The bars at the top are a hoot; always try to 'lawyer proof' these things.
M

[8870]

The lower deck never was completed. According to my father who grew up in Speers in the 1930's, the purpose of the lower deck was to connect the Pittsburgh Steel mills in Allenport and Monessen. The plan had been to connect to the PRR branch south of the trestle with a raised curved sloping roadbed somewhat like the Monessen SW structure on the Belle Vernon side. To get the correct curvature the houses on Rt 88 adjacent to the 70 bridge would have had to be removed. The houses are still mostly there. After the highway bridge went in the building of this rail connection was said to be impossible with the highway bridge support and the highway eastbound access ramp in the way.

No, there never was any dumping facility at the end of the lower deck. The project was simply interrupted then abandoned.

[malley]

8870, that makes sense, and thanks.
Malley

[camp car bill]

Does anyone know if the navigation lights on Speer River Bridge are still in use? During the period between 1970 and 1975, I worked with the Electrician and we serviced these lights and got to them by the span connected to the lower deck truss.If one of the lights were out and if the Coast Guard called the office at Rook we droped what were doing got right out to the bridge.

CCB
_________________
wmmjr

[Longview Station]

CCB;

They better be working...huh?
I was just down there Sunday, but it was daylight.
Now that the lower deck is dis-connected, I'd like to know how they do access them.
It have to be via the top deck, then what ???
A long ladder ?

I was down Banning also this past Sunday.
All I can say is "IMPRESSIVE"...
The Youghiogheny River Bridge has new concrete footers adjacent to the CSX main.
All the trees under the bridge between the roadway and CSX are cut down.
A contractor cleaned the place up nicely.
In all my years, this is the first time this area has looked as it should...
Its a shame it won't last.
The contractors also should be advised to clean the dirt/leaves from inside the I beams at the concrete footers.
Leaves fill these spaces up then turn to dirt and hold lots of mositure.
I'm always cleaning them out so they dry out and quit rusting.

I understand they are working down in Jacobs Creek area on the bridges.

VW

[Longview Station]

CCB;

I just gave the WebMasters a bunch of boxes of P&WV records.
In one box was info on the Harbor lights needed for the river bridges.
Pretty neat stuff.

I still have a bunch of boxes to send their way.
There is just too much stuff for me to handle.

I know its in good hands here.

VW

[PWVJer]

Well CCB,
There is indeed a P&WV folder with lots of R.R. information on the Belle Vernon and Ohio River Bridge(s).
Navigation & Mid-Channel Lights, WW-II Black-out lights and Complete Bridge Light-ups.

(Don't know anything about the current W&LE era)
Several reports from (Belle Vernon) 1934, 1937, 1942, 1944 & 45'.
From: W. H. Bean, Steam & Elec. Engineer, to Supt. Cruikshank.
Also includes original booklets "Regulations for Lighting Bridges" 1928, 1937 and 1944.

Hey VW... I can't believe I found this information/stuff so quick!
...Must be my Hi-Line super-magic vision!

JZ.