The The P&WV Hi-Line
P&WV Technical and Historical Interest Group
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Caboose Horn Plumbing

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The P&WV Hi-Line Forum Index -> Messages
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jayrod



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Akron, OH

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12: 32 pm    Post subject: Caboose Horn Plumbing Reply with quote

Does anyone know how the air horns were plumbed on the cabooses? Seems to me that if they were plumbed directly off the brake pipe, one longish blast would set the brakes or possibly dump the air. Was there a separate reservoir with a check valve that was charged off the brake pipe for the horn?

We used a monkey tail with a small air whistle for just-in-case during long backup moves and if you tooted too much, you'd get a brake set.
_________________
Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Longview Station



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Longview Station

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6: 17 pm    Post subject: P&WV Caboose Air Horn Reply with quote

Not sure the exact specifics of the plumbing, the 500 series cabooses had a cupola mounted horn. It did not dump the air when used. I have a ancient tape recording of the late C.A. McCready using the cupola mounted horn as they slammed over Willis Road crossing...circa 1972 ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jayrod



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Akron, OH

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10: 26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would lead me to think there was an auxiliary air tank for the horn. I'll keep digging a bit and post back what I find.
_________________
Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
WM Historian



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 39
Location: Finleyville, Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4: 46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some questions for thought.......What was the specific purpose of the air horn on the cupola used for?

Was it for a specific switching location or did the P&WV eliminate the back up whistle on each end platform in lieu of the horn?

Since these cars (500 Series) are almost carbon copies of WM Steel caboose cars 1801-1905.....Both railroads used Bethlehem Steel under-frames for there cabooses......P&WV Orders DF-1108 (5 Cars), DF-2193 (5 Cars), DF-2897 (5 Cars)......15 Total under-frames.

The following information may shed some light

On the WM the back-up whistles were installed on each end platform......they also had a problem early on with whistle causing a service application of the air brake when activated. This was solved in 1945 by the use of a 3/32" Brass choke at the whistles to restrict air flow.

Up in the cupola, the WM used a A-2 Caboose Valve to initiate a emergency brake application. The valve also could be used in graduated steps to achieve a full stop of the train....short of going into full emergency.

The research I have done seems to indicate the use of a 2 chokes solved the problem without the use of an auxiliary reservoir.

The example I use of the A-2 valve.......which I assume was standard on the P&WV cabs....is the the air source for the cupola horn.... along with a additional branch pipe to the horn valve assembly.


David J. Dudjak
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jayrod



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Akron, OH

PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 5: 15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

Horn would be used for backup moves and signaling before radio. The horns appeared to be on the smaller side so I guess you could assume that the air usage would not be as extravagant though I can't help but think that enthusiasm would give a service application as you said.

I asked if one of the guys up in Salamanca would look at their caboose #854 and see where the plumbing goes. The mounting bracket and pipe is still existing on their car.

If I hear back, I'll post.
_________________
Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Longview Station



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Longview Station

PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7: 44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayrod... Route 22 in Ohio, 35 miles west of Steubenville the 828 is on display there. Use to be Cravat Coal Company property, not sure who owns it these days but it was there 2 months ago if you want to take a look at the plumbing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
WM Historian



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 39
Location: Finleyville, Pa.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 12: 08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P&WV 828/NW 500828 is ex-WM 1840.

The cab was retired under WM AFE 141-59.....at a cost of $3451.00.
WM records show that this retirement was completed on July 27, 1959.

Images of 500828 from 1992 show the horn on the stove end only and it appears that it extends back over the cupola roof, not ahead of it.

How this cab ended up on the P&WV is still unsure.......it may have been sold as scrap to a third party (i.e. Marshall Railway Equipment)......this scenario happened to 5 WM cabs that eventually found a new home on the Maine Central.

The 5 cabs were listed as "SOLD"......the 1840 was listed as "RETIRED".

In my experience.... WM's terminology for "RETIRED": to dismantle and sell for scrap. (Maryland Jct., WVa. dismantle or shipped dead on wheels to a outside vendor)


David J Dudjak
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jayrod



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Akron, OH

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5: 31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay. Thanks to Terry up in Salamanca, the mystery is solved. There was a small reservoir inside one of the equipment cabinets likely charged off the main brake pipe. The reservoir itself is no longer there but the mounting straps and most of the piping still is. [EDIT] There was a small valve between the cupola end windows below the horn to act as a hard shut-off. There were two actuating valves, one on each end of the cupola, each with a cord that ran toward the end doors that you could pull to blow the horn.
_________________
Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jayrod



Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 494
Location: Akron, OH

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9: 53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,
Sorry, forgot to comment back.... I'm with you on "retired". If the records don't say "sold to" or didn't have an additional notation that it was retired and sold, then "retired" is about a 90% chance it went to scrap.

And scrap dealers were more than happy to flip serviceable equipment since they didn't have to store it or spend money on labor and materials to cut them up. Quite a bit of stuff got redistributed that way to other railroads or private owners. The practice still goes on today.

[Edit] To clarify for all, the 828 mentioned above was the second 828, purchased from WM. The original 828 built from a Bethlehem kit at Rook in 1940 was "retired" wrecked in 1948. I think the second 828 is still hanging out in Cadiz, OH, private owner.
_________________
Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
WM Historian



Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 39
Location: Finleyville, Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10: 09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah, I already knew this was the 2nd 828 on the P&WV, just didn't know what became of the original 828..........a 11 year time frame (1948-1959) to replace the original.

David J Dudjak
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The P&WV Hi-Line Forum Index -> Messages All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.20 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group