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Blane
Joined: 23 Dec 2014 Posts: 25 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6: 03 pm Post subject: Wheeling & Lake Erie Railroad System Map |
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Hello
While doing the system map for my prototype-based freelanced railroad, which has the W&LE and P&WV as subsidiaries, I decided to do a system map for the original W&LE as well as the P&WV. This map was made using the Google Maps tool called My Maps with route data gathered using W&LE and P&WV system maps, historical topographic maps (available for free download from the USGS website), and present-day terrain layer in Google Maps.
The P&WV is all in one layer with routes in the colour red while the W&LE has routes and points separated with the routes in the colour orange. The P&WV route includes the Monessen & South Western and the Donora Southern with the W&LE route including the Lorain & West Virginia.
Here is a link to the map: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_X_2n_i7dOkfUY08TKQo3q2urXg&usp=sharing
Let me know what you think _________________ Blane |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 7: 11 am Post subject: |
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At first glance, it generally looks pretty good. Concerning details like branch lines, connections and terminal points, it depends on what time frame you're modeling. Let us know what that is and I'll take a crack at trying to pinpoint some of those details as time allows. I'm sure others will chime in. To take it a step further, a complete all-time map with dates for when things came and went would be interesting, at least to me - I'm kind of a map geek. _________________ Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod |
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Blane
Joined: 23 Dec 2014 Posts: 25 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2016 5: 49 pm Post subject: |
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The era I model for my prototype-based freelanced railroad, known as the Virginian & Appalachian railway, is the early 70s. However, the map I produced is not reflective of the lines in existence for the W&LE and P&WV at that time. As you mentioned, this map is more reflective of an all-time P&WV and W&LE map and it would be interesting to add dates for lines.
The P&WV routes were based off this system map from 1953: http://railsandtrails.com/Maps/P&WV/
The W&LE routes were based off this system map from 1924 (used a print copy found in my copy of "Wheeling & Lake Erie Volume 2"): http://www.r2parks.net/WLE.html
While producing this map, I know certain P&WV lines were not around by the time of my era. For example, the Bell Branch located east of Mingo was long gone by the early 70s from what I can tell and the Donora Southern was abandoned by 1970 since most of the industry that it served closed up in the early 60s.
If you have a Google account jayrod, then I can give you permission to be an editor for the map which means you can add and edit to the map I've already created. _________________ Blane |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 5: 31 pm Post subject: |
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I have a webmaster account which should be an all-access pass to all things Google. I, for one, have very limited time at the moment. But, if others are interested, I think it should be a collaborative effort. I don't mind doing what research I can when I can. I'm also trying to come up with an all-time equipment roster but that's been on hold lately. There just ain't enough hours in the day. Sigh.... _________________ Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod |
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Blane
Joined: 23 Dec 2014 Posts: 25 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2016 9: 41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm definitely willing to let other people participate in upgrading this map with more detailed information as I feel this could be a very useful resource for others in this community. The USGS topographic maps probably helped the most as they gave a good visual for the rail lines.
Would you like me to add you as an administrator for the map jayrod? _________________ Blane |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 8: 21 am Post subject: |
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Sure. Let me know what info you need. You can send me an email via the link at the bottom of this post. _________________ Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod |
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Rich_S
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 253 Location: Baden, PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7: 17 am Post subject: |
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Blane, I added some info to your post on the Model Railroad Hobbyist forum. _________________ Regards,
Rich S. |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5: 14 pm Post subject: |
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Blane - I see a couple corrections right off. First question is: How much detail do you want to go into?
Example: The Clairton branch was the original mainline of the West Side Belt/P&WV. The Connellsville extension took off from Pierce, now the connection to the Clairton branch, not the east end of Rook. Off the top of my head without looking it up, the extension was completed in 1931. It ended at the P&LE connection in Connellsville and WM ownership started at CV Tower (Union Station) a short distance east of the P&LE connection. P&WV had trackage rights over the short section of the P&LE. Regular interchange occurred at the Connellsville yard east of CV Tower. You could write a chapter on interchange and Alpha Jet crew changes between the WM & P&WV in Connellsville and Bowest. _________________ Eric Schlentner
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Rich_S
Joined: 23 Aug 2011 Posts: 253 Location: Baden, PA
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6: 04 pm Post subject: |
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Eric, Here is some of the info I posted on Blane's Model Railroad Hobbyist
blog:
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The P&WV interchanged with the PRR Bridgeville & McDonald Branch at Sygan PA. The West End Belt only interchanged with the P&LE, not the PRR. At Avella there was a coal prep plant, small yard and a sizeable passing siding.
The Avella Passenger station (which still stands today) Is located on Avella road near the route 50 overpass. The Name of the prep plant at Avella, believe it or not was Acme Coal Cleaning Company.
You did not include the Rehoboth Spur in Belle Vernon, PA. I do not know if the spur got it's name from the nearby church, but to this day the spur still serves the industrial park the P&WV created along Finley road.
I'm not sure if you knew this, but the P&WV used trackage rights over the P&LE in Connellsville to reach the Western Maryland's Bowest Yard. A side note, the name Bowest came from "B&O and WESTern Maryland" because the Western Maryland used B&O trackage rights from Connellsville to reach the WM yard in Fairmont WV. |
And I was just hitting the high points of the Avella area, I didn't really go
into any detail on the branches and paper railroads that existed in the
Avella area.
It looks like you hit on some of the same topics as I did concerning Connellsville.
I still haven't heard back from Blane, so I'm not sure just how much
detailed he wants for his interactive system map? _________________ Regards,
Rich S. |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 6: 56 pm Post subject: |
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One correction to your WSB at West End..... Waaaay back when, there was also a connection to the PRR cut into the western side of valley. I think there's a map on this site somewhere.
Lets not forget the Mifflin Branch and Coverdale Mine. The original stub through Mt. Washington into downtown Pittsburgh. Avella had a pantload of spurs (http://thepwvhiline.com/AvellaMapInThePWVEra/PWV_Avella_Mines_Map_2.html). The Betsy Mine tipple was located a mile up Slab Run. The W&LE had a bunch of realignments between Pittsburgh Junction and Orrville. Yikes, we could go nuts on this. _________________ Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod |
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Blane
Joined: 23 Dec 2014 Posts: 25 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 9: 00 pm Post subject: |
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My apologizes for not responding here sooner as I had forgotten to check for post replies and updates.
Thank you for the additional prototype information as my knowledge of the P&WV is still limited compared to what some of you guys know here on the forums. My main focus of the map was on the mainlines and certain branches as the map came from my larger freelanced railroad map which only really details mainlines. However, given the extent of knowledge about the P&WV, it might be beneficial to give it a map of its own separate from the W&LE.
I'm willing to add people as editors to the map so that they can make additions and changes to the map which would help enhance it. If I made a separate P&WV map it might be easier to achieve a higher level of detail as it wouldn't be sharing space with the W&LE. Symbols and colours could be used to identify features and such.
Although I'm the one who started this map, I'd like to have other people involved in helping it grow who have more prototype knowledge than I do. _________________ Blane |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9: 35 am Post subject: |
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Blane,
No apologies necessary. This is a good topic for discussion as questions about track location have come up before. I think it would be great to have an all-time map, with dates, though it would be a long-term project. You may have created a monster...... _________________ Eric Schlentner
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12: 30 pm Post subject: |
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Good resource for finding mine spurs in Ohio: https://gis.ohiodnr.gov/MapViewer/?config=OhioMines. Get some snacks and put a pot of coffee on cuz you'll be there a while. Some of the mine data have map links to PDFs that will show spurs if any. Have fun. _________________ Eric Schlentner
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ausonius
Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Posts: 6
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5: 43 pm Post subject: |
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If my memory serves me right, I believe PWVJer on this forum has an original P&WV track map from the 40s maybe, with the P&WV Wye at Monessen Station and the MSW B Branch spur on it. That would be a great help. |
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jayrod
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 494 Location: Akron, OH
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 2: 48 pm Post subject: |
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Added known underground mine spurs in Ohio to Blane's map. Next up, surface mines and then on to WV & PA. I'll also try to get the W&LE and WSB. _________________ Eric Schlentner
Aka, jayrod |
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